JLA/Avengers Timeline

Contracts are signed for more Marvel/DC crossovers, including JLA/Avengers. Under the terms of the contract, DC would take responsibility for editorially producing the book, while Marvel was responsible for the marketing and distribution of the project. One editor from each company is to be chosen to edit and coordinate the project together. DC selects current JLA editor Len Wein. According to a subsequent 1984 uncredited article in Marvel Age #19, Marvel selects editor-in-chief Jim Shooter. This is later a major point of confusion among the creative team, most of whom are under the impression that Marvel’s designated editor for the project is longtime Avengers editor Mark Gruenwald.

Mike Carlin: “I was Mark Gruenwald’s assistant at the time of JLA/Avengers but have to admit that the project really didn’t get far enough for me to get to edit. I do recall that Mark, as editor of the Avengers, was involved, in that he read and signed off on the plots. He would mark up the plots and discuss his concerns with Shooter.” –2004 interview

The contract also stipulates that “Marvel and DC shall jointly agree on mutually acceptable modifications,” a phrase that would have much larger ramifications as well.

Soon, a creative team is agreed upon. Current JLA writer and past Avengers scribe Gerry Conway is a natural choice for plotting the book, and Conway’s occasional Hollywood writing partner — and acclaimed past Avengers writer — Roy Thomas will provide the script. Chosen to pencil the momentous team-up is the self-proclaimed man “born to draw this comic” — George Pérez. Pérez is arguably the hottest artist working in comics at this point, largely based on his current work for DC’s New Teen Titans, but his background also includes lengthy stints on both Avengers and JLA. Dick Giordano, one of comics’ top inkers when he isn’t chained behind DC’s Vice President – Executive Editor desk, is selected to ink the project.

(Interesting aside: Roy Thomas, Len Wein, and Gerry Conway were no strangers to corporate politics, as they all previously served as Marvel’s editor-in-chief at various times in the 1970s, although Conway’s tenure was incredibly brief. Conway had also been an editor at DC ,and Thomas and Wein were current DC editors at the time of this project.).

Conway is given the go to start writing the plot. 

The JLA/Avengers and X-Men/Titans books were to be printed on Baxter stock; confirms Dick Giordano as inker.

George Perez’s interview, from The Comics Journal #79-80 (Jan. - Mar. 1983, interview conducted in Sept. of 1982), available TCJ.com

Oh, I’d love every book to be printed on Baxter stock! I just picked up the reprint of Warlock that they did on Baxter. God, bless that looks different! It’s gorgeous work. The thing that I’m glad of is that X-Men/Titans and JLA/Avengers are both going to be done on Baxter stock, which is great. I’d like to see my artwork reproduced there. Dick Giordano wants to ink the JLA/Avengers book. I was going to ask him; but he volunteered. The guy is sick. Hopefully I can convince them to do it in Marvel color, full process color.

In the same interview, George admitted to not then-currently reading the Avengers title at the time, because he couldn’t stand what’s happened to the Avengers. Around this time, Jim Shooter was the writer of the Avengers (Avengers #211-222 and plot #224) and was responsible for the state of the team.

Sadly, I do not read the Avengers anymore. I just can’t stand what’s happened to them. I don’t understand that book anymore. It’s not the book I drew. Whether it’s better or worse in sales, I don’t know. It could be better for all I know, it’s just not the book I drew.

“The DC/Marvel team-ups of 1983 will both be produced under the auspices of the DC editorial offices. May’s Avengers/Justice League team-up will be by Roy Thomas, Gerry Conway, and George Pérez, with Marvel handling the promotion; and Marv Wolfman and Pérez will handle the fall New Teen Titans/X-Men team-up.” TCR #210 (April 1983) updates the release date on JLA/Avengers to June ‘83. 

Jim Shooter: “I’m afraid that the first try at the Avengers/JLA plot isn’t acceptable, or even close. The problems are many, but there’s no point in listing them and getting bogged down in details because the whole thing just doesn’t make sense. Why is any of this stuff happening (other than because the writer says it is) and why are all these people doing strange things? I find very few solid reasons or motives for the actions of the characters. — Shooter letter to Giordano, February 25, 1983 (from Marvel Age #19)

George Pérez: “– with all due respect to Gerry, this was just a job to him, and there were enormous plot holes, including stuff that seemed to be out of character for some of both the Marvel and DC characters. ‘They’re only acting this way because it gets us to this next point,’ as opposed to acting in character and letting that motivate what happens next.” — Modern Masters Volume 2: George Pérez, 2003

Pérez isn’t overly concerned with this, as he’s used to working in this style — and working with Conway — and knows that it will be part of his job to tighten up the plot when he paces the story.

Mike Carlin: “Mark (Gruenwald) was concerned that the first plot wasn’t good. There were a lot of things that didn’t make sense, and he gave Shooter notes on it.” — 2004 interview

Roger Stern: “I had come into the office and, since I had recently become the writer of the Avengers, I asked if I could see the plot to make sure that the Avengers were being played in character. I remember that I was sitting in Mark Gruenwald’s office with Mark and Jim [Shooter] and maybe Mike Carlin. Anyway, they basically told me not to worry: ‘As soon as they [DC] send us the new plot, we’ll show it to you.’

“The first one was rejected. They then proceeded to outline the first plot for me, and it was pretty obvious why it had been rejected. As I recall, the villains were Kang and the Time Lord, and there was an element of time travel involved, with various Leaguers and Avengers being flung through time. The part I remember most vividly was a scene set in the past with Superman on Galactus’ world ship. Superman discovered that Galactus had an actual written list of the next planets he was planning to eat, and Krypton was on the list. What does Superman do? In the proposed plot, he uses his heat vision to erase Krypton from the list! The implication was that Superman didn’t care if Galactus ate all those other planets. What a swell guy! At first, I thought Mark and Jim had to be kidding me, but they were serious! I mean, Superman is DCs flagship character. And DC approved that?! Mark just nodded and rolled his eyes. I was flabbergasted.

“The problem was that Gerry’s plots had a tendency to be very loose, with scenes that might have looked cool but didn’t always make much sense. And there was no sense to some of that stuff. Superman would face off against Thor, for instance, while the other Avengers and Justice Leaguers seemed to just stand around, waiting their turn. There didn’t seem to be any motivation for why any of the action was happening. One of the things we [at Marvel] were most concerned about was the [JLA/Avengers] plot should have characters doing something for a reason and with reason.

“Gerry, for all of his talent as a writer, seemed to approach comics as just another job in those days. But this wasn’t just another job, this was a big deal.” — 2004 interview.

Tom DeFalco (Executive Editor under Shooter at the time of JLA/Avengers): “Mark Gruenwald and I were given the plot to read. Neither one of us had any axes to grind. We discussed it a bit before we read it, and this might be a little sleazy on our part, but we thought that unless the plot really didn’t work, we were going to approve it. There was a little ‘just get it done’ attitude. We were shocked at how bad it was.” –2004 interview

Roy Thomas: “Gerry Conway did a plot, which Jim Shooter didn’t like. Shooter had some objections — some of them were doubtless valid, some of them maybe less so — but, you know, that’s a matter of opinion. So Gerry rewrote the plot, slightly, trying to take into account what he thought were Shooter’s objections. But this was before Jim had actually put down anything in writing — I must say, somewhat insultingly — in a letter to Dick Giordano. Something like, “Okay, now let’s have a real plot,” and things of that sort. I thought it was a very unprofessional way of handling things. Dick elected not to bother to show the letter to Gerry, figuring it would just cause bad blood between them.” — Comics Interview #6, August 1983

Jim Shooter: “The plot for JLA/Avengers had indeed been submitted to me before George Perez started drawing it. It was weak, full of holes, and replete with continuity glitches. I rejected it in writing. Dick Giordano subsequently telephoned me to ask if I would mind if he told Gerry Conway that DC had rejected the plot instead of me, for some strange reason of internal politics which I never did understand. I said I didn’t care what DC did internally as long as I got a revised plot.” — Wizard #35, July 1994

It appears that the plot Shooter refers to in his letter of February 25 is actually Conway’s second draft of the plot. Thomas confirms that Conway wrote a revised draft.

There is a possibility that the first version of Conway’s plot was only seen by Wein and Gruenwald. Len Wein’s memories of the project are admittedly “fuzzy,” but he recalls that he had discussions with Gruenwald before sending the plot to Pérez. Mike Carlin speculates that Gruenwald may have brought Shooter in when he continued to be unhappy with Conway’s plot revisions. This would explain why Shooter appeared to have no “official” response to the first plot, per the Marvel Age article.

George Pérez: “After it was rejected, in order to understand what was going on, he (Giordano) did read the plot. Not yet knowing what Jim’s objections were, he saw a lot of things that he didn’t understand and would have objected to. So Jim had a legitimate point.

“The big trouble was trying to specify what was wrong. Jim just sent a very short, curt letter saying it was ‘unacceptable. Try again guys.’ That was it– without dealing with the specifics, which was what we basically wanted. If the specifics could be ironed out, maybe the plot could be salvaged. If not, we’d have to do another plot.” — Comics Interview #6, August 1983

Pérez recalled that Shooter’s rejection of the plot “distressed me, but was understandable” given the plot problems. He also indicated that prior to the rejection, Giordano had not read the plot.

While the plot was being scrutinized and ultimately rejected, another problem came to light. DC editor Len Wein was primarily dealing with Marvel editor Mark Gruenwald, leaving Marvel’s editor-of-record — Jim Shooter — out of the loop. At laid-back DC, the editors in the trenches dealt with the day-to-day issues of their projects and the executive editor (Giordano) was only brought in on major problems (which explains why Giordano had not read the plot until the problems began). At Marvel, Shooter, as Editor-in-Chief and, more pointedly, as the editor of this project, preferred that everything go through him. There is speculation from many of the principals that Shooter was offended by this lack of protocol. The bigger mistake may have been that Giordano had neglected to inform Wein that Shooter was the go-to guy on the project, and Wein assumed that his contact was Gruenwald.

Another problem made worse by conflicting styles was that, under Giordano’s laid-back tenure, DC editors would more often accept a verbal approval. Marvel, under Shooter, preferred the more formal written confirmation required in the actual contract. Shooter, already burned by DC’s slack protocol and concerned by the lack of quality in the Conway plot, was understandably concerned with keeping a tight rein on the project.

At some point after this, Wein contacted Shooter and with Gruenwald, discussed Shooter’s concerns with the plot via phone. The three came up with some possible solutions to plot problems. Wein asked if this discussion was sufficient to allow George Pérez to get started penciling the book. Shooter said “No.” He insisted on seeing a written plot, as per the contract.

However, George Pérez had already been sent the plot by Wein.

George Pérez: “The really big trouble started when I talked to Len Wein and we came up with a few ideas about correcting the plot, We suggested a few ideas that I was led to believe were discussed with either Jim Shooter or Mark Gruenwald. Now, by this time the book was already getting quite a bit behind schedule. So I had to have an answer immediately and DC gave me the go-ahead, saying that the plot should be okay, because everything had been discussed. All that needed to be done was the formality of sending Jim Shooter a written plot. They told me to get started.” — Comics Interview #6, August 1983

The fact that Pérez had the plot at all was technically yet another breach of protocol by DC. And it was made worse by DC when Pérez was given approval to begin work — on an unapproved plot!

Exactly who gave Pérez the “go” order has always been under speculation. Wein had sent Pérez the unapproved plot, and the two of them had discussed it at length. However, the official DC statement on the incident appeared in a letter from Giordano to Shooter where Giordano accepted the blame and apologized.

Dick Giordano: “When we thought we had it (the plot) de-bugged, Len called you with an outline of the changes, to which you responded positively, saying you felt the changes would work. Len reported that conversation to me with the request from you that a new written plot be submitted. I thought this to be logical but largely a formality and ordered George Pérez to start drawing before the new plot was typed. In doing so, I had no intention of ignoring your wishes. I understood your conversation with Len to be a tacit approval of our modifications and desired to only to keep the project moving. I have since apologized to you for this seeming breach of protocol and trust that this unintentional mistake is not one of the reasons for your rejection.” — Giordano letter to Shooter, May 26, 1983 (from Marvel Age #19 and the first “Meanwhile…” column).

George Pérez: “I had been drawing for two weeks and was already starting page 21, when I received a call from Len Wein saying they needed to find out what changes I was making in the plot. (DC staffer) Joey Cavalieri had to do a piecemeal plot based on things I had changed — ideas, if not actual explanations — since I hadn’t quite worked out everything as I was going along yet.” — Comics Interview #6, August 1983

Gerry Conway, unwilling to do another draft of the plot, leaves the project at this point. Cavalieri, in consultation with Perez and Wein, cobbles together a new plot — draft #3 — and Giordano rushes it into Shooter’s hands.

Gerry Conway: “Jim and Marvel didn’t want to do another crossover, for whatever reason, and stalled for months. MONTHS. Wouldn’t respond, wouldn’t give notes. Deadline was coming up and George needed to start. So finally we started. And suddenly Jim found the plot unusable. His objections to the plot were specious and unnecessarily personal— he used offensive terms to describe standard plot maneuvers and claimed I didn’t understand how to write characters I’d written years before he did, and had done so successfully. I’ll never agree with his characterization of the story— which everyone in DC thought was fine— but the story wasn’t the reason he tanked the project. I don’t know why— but the foot dragging before we even had a story to criticize is clear evidence he never wanted to proceed.” - @gerryconway, December 2011

Shooter and Giordano meet at San Diego. According to Giordano, he asks Shooter if he’s read the plot. Shooter says no but indicates he has it with him and will try to read it during the Con. Giordano points out that it would be advantageous if he could, as the entire creative team was present at the convention and could work things out right there. However, the Marvel Age article indicates that Giordano hands Shooter Thomas’ revised plot (implying that this is the first time Shooter has seen it) and asks for “instant approval.”

Giordano denies asking for “instant approval,” and after attempting several unsuccessful attempts at getting together at the Con, he tells Shooter that if a new start date for Pérez isn’t determined by the end of August, they will lose Pérez due to other commitments. According to the Marvel Age article, Shooter states that he wants to get comments on the plot from Gruenwald and Avengers writer Roger Stern before he can comment on the plot. Unfortunately, nothing moves forward for almost two weeks, as most of the principals are “out of the office” during the busy convention season.

Jim Shooter writes on jimshooter.com:

When I ran into Dick at the con, August 4th, I hadn’t yet read Roy’s plot, and wanted to get comments from Gruenwald before responding anyway.

Sometime after the San Diego Con and maybe another con the next weekend, I was finally back in the office.

Roy’s plot seemed fine.

Not only that, Roy was and is King of Continuity. He’s the best ever at taking a bunch of random threads and weaving them into a convincing tapestry. He had gone over the existing Pérez pages and figured out a way to make almost all of them usable. Some small portion, I’ll guess two pages total, a panel here and there would have to be redrawn. That’s all.

Dick Giordano writes in Meanwhile…:

The rare opportunity we had at the 1983 San Diego convention was that all the principles were in attendance! Jim, Mark Gruenwald, George Perez, Len Wein, Gerry Conway, Roy Thomas, and myself were there, and the DC team was eager to get together, discuss and resolve any script problems that might still exist, and get to work on the book upon our return to New York. Jim replied that he was busy and didn't know if he could find the time. He didn't. Despite my saying hat we were all busy, but we could find an hour or two to meet and talk. Despite two or three more attempts during the weekend to arrange a meeting. Despite my leaving a note for Jim at the hotel I would be staying at in Los Angeles after the con. (I discovered that Jim and some of Marvel's staffers were taking some R&R in Los Angeles at the same time that I would be there.) Despite all these attempts, Jim remained adamant. He was too busy. I did not ask for "instant approval." It simply would have been quicker and more efficient for us all to meet in one room away from the office and the telephones and resolve the script problems, nose to nose. It would also allow everyone to hear what everyone else thought. Since we were not able to conclude our talks in San Diego, I informed Jim that George Perez's commitments to other DC projects precluded his being able to remain on the project after a new start up date later in August.

According to the Marvel Age article, Shooter returns to the office and finally reads Thomas’s revised plot. He gives a copy to Gruenwald (even though he was at the convention with Shooter) and sends a copy to Stern for comments.

Roger Stern: “I don’t remember ever getting a hard copy of the plot. Maybe it got lost in the mail — or in Marvel’s mailroom. That certainly wasn’t unheard of. Anyway, by the time I’d heard that there was a new plot, George was making noise about leaving the project.

“As late as things were by that time, the book should really have been rescheduled with a new plot, from scratch if necessary, so that George would have been able to draw it without any deadline hassles. And in a weird sort of way, that’s what eventually happened. It’s just too bad that it took so long.

“Of course, twenty years ago, Kurt (Busiek) wouldn’t have been ready to write the story. And now, George is an even better artist. Plus, the JLA/Avengers book now has more pages and much better printing, so maybe everything worked out for the best. What I find most unfortunate about the whole affair were the hard feelings that arose — mainly through miscommunication and misunderstanding.

“But what DC — even the DC guys who had once worked at Marvel — didn’t seem to understand is how much things had changed at Marvel, storywise. Marvel had grown so much during the late 70s that the old laissez faire method of batting out a plot and making sense of it later didn’t fly anymore. Plotting had taken on much more importance. If the plot didn’t hold together, it was like knocking over a row of dominos. There’s an old joke in the business: We’ll fix in the penciling — well, we’ll fix it in the scripting — or in the inking or (heaven help the poor colorist) in the coloring. But if the plot is solid in the first place, you don’t have to be playing catch-up farther down the line.

“The attitude we got from DC in those days seemed to be that this was another one-shot book that would sell regardless of the story’s quality. Whereas Marvel saw the project as a showcase for both companies’ greatest super-heroes. A lot of readers would see this and — if it were well done — hey, maybe they’d want to read more JLA and Avengers stories. With George drawing it, we knew it would look good, but if the story were lacking, why would they want to buy any more? Ah, I don’t wanna read about those guys. They all suck! As the writer of the Avengers, that was another major concern of mine.” –2004 interview

Meanwhile, Giordano made frequent attempts to contact Shooter by phone during August to no avail. The one time he actually got through to Shooter, Giordano indicated “he (Shooter) didn’t think that this was such a long time, since DC had withheld approval of his Superman/Spider-Man plot for two months.” Earlier in the month, an unnamed Marvel staffer expressed dismay to Giordano at the length of time it was taking Marvel to inform DC. “It’s been approved… I don’t understand the delay,” said the staffer.

George Pérez: “He (Shooter) did make a statement to Dick Giordano that when Paul Levitz had to approve his plot for the Superman/Spider-Man story, the second one, that it took about three months for an approval to be made. Whatever Paul’s reason, whatever bitterness that may have caused Jim, whether it’s understandable or not, is beside the point. It’s just unprofessional to let that mar your judgment.” — Comics Interview #6, August 1983

Roy Thomas: “Several weeks later, Shooter was, for all I could see, just sort of avoiding comment on it. I mean, Dick would try to call, and various things, and on some days he couldn’t even get Shooter to come on the phone to discuss it. He would just say, “I need another few days.” I don’t know how long it takes Jim to read and comment on 17 pages of a stream-of-consciousness plot. And since I refused to work with him directly — I would work with him only through Dick — obviously I’m not in direct contact with him at all.” — Comics Interview #6, August 1983 

Jim Shooter writes on jimshooter.com:

But around August 22nd, word came that Pérez had withdrawn from the project.

Now what?

Back to square one.

There was communication with DC, Dick or someone, throughout this period. I was told that they had another artist in mind, Don Heck. I sent over some notes on the new plot, all Gruenwald’s, all minor stuff.

But soon thereafter, DC chose to terminate the series rather than proceed.

George Pérez gives an interview to Comics Interview, expressing his frustration with the situation and especially with Shooter. Pérez also decides that the interview will include his announcement that he is quitting the project.

George Pérez: “The book was supposed to be out three months ago. Granted, the plot wasn’t approved the first time, but everything since then is because Marvel Comics — excuse me, Jim Shooter — has not done a single thing to help it along. He’s procrastinated, ignored it, and actually made it seem that DC was the one that was constantly dragging their feet. But we couldn’t make a single move without Jim exercising his power of accepting or rejecting. The fact that he wasn’t even making a decision was the thing that finally did it. I mean it was procrastination. A rejection, we could have accepted. But the idea that he has not even bothered to take the time to give us an answer was the thing that made me realize that I don’t trust him any more.

“I gave Jim every benefit of the doubt. I was the last person who was not willing to accept the fact that this was being done on some level other than a professional level. As editor-in-chief, it was his duty to get that thing edited and either accept it or refuse it as quickly as possible. He did not do it. And I have no confidence that he will do it. I can’t wait any more. It broke my heart. I had been looking forward to this assignment before I had even turned pro. It was a pipe dream, the idea that someday maybe the JLA and the Avengers could get together. I never thought it would happen. I lived for waking up to get started on those pages. It’s the most heartbreaking decision I’ve ever had to make. I regret making it, but I don’t trust Jim Shooter. I just don’t think that he wants this project done.” — Comics Interview #6, August 1983

Jim Shooter: “The first time I knew George was angry at me was when I read an interview in a fan magazine in which he unjustly condemned me. Why he didn’t simply call me and ask me what was going on amazes me to this day. George shouldn’t make presumptions about my motives.” — Wizard #35, July 1994

George Pérez: “I haven’t talked to him (Shooter), because Dick Giordano felt that it was his responsibility to do so.” — Comics Interview #6, August 1983

Roy Thomas is also interviewed in a sidebar to Pérez’s interview.

Roy Thomas: “I think it’s a shame that a comics company is run that way, but that’s Marvel’s fault. I’m no longer there, so I don’t care. I just feel people ought to know what’s going on.” — Comics Interview #6, August 1983

George Pérez: “I may be speaking unfairly here, but I don’t think anything was going to please Jim at that point. I think Jim was personally affronted that, as far as he felt, he was being sidestepped in the production of the book — even though he wasn’t the editor. I believe Mark Gruenwald was. But he was editor-in-chief and he had final say.” — Modern Masters Volume 2: George Pérez, 2003

In a letter to Giordano, Shooter approves the revised plot. In it, he outlines his specific objections, mostly based on current continuity concerns. By this point, however, many of the others have abandoned the project.

Dick Giordano writes in Meanwhile…:

Plot approval (with minor revisions) was given on September 28th, exactly two months from the date it was hand-delivered to Marvel's office. And I am asked to believe that Marvel's otherwise competent staff needed two months to come up with revisions like: Ant Man should not be included, he is not an Avengers now (neither was Batman a JLAer... but our readers would have wanted him involved, so he was); and Quicksilver comes from Attilan, which is on the moon; and Hawkeye is married now; and 5 or 6 others that were minor and relatively simple to change. (They're all listed in the Marvel Age text. Check them out yourself.)

Pérez and Marv Wolfman do an interview for the British fanzine Chain Reaction. Both are highly critical of Shooter’s actions, and Pérez blames Shooter for deliberately delaying his decision to approve the plot. Further, both creators indicate that they believe Shooter may have ulterior motives in not approving the plot.

Excerpt from Chain Reaction (Sep 1983)

George: The book was scheduled to come out in June 1983. It will not come out in 1983 at all, if it does come out at all. Jim Shooter was given a new plot that tried to use the majority of the 21 pages already drawn, to save those pages. This was by Roy Thomas and the original plot was by Gerry Conway. Roy actually managed to make a coherent script ultilising the majority of those pages, yet making it a totally different story. Most people who've read it, including Marv, say that Roy did wonders with it and actually produced a cohesive story.... I think that Jim got a little too technical about the plot. A plot is not supposed to explain everything. I worked with Jim Shooter on the Avengers, when a plot is given it's never etched in stone, but he turned it down and Roy did a new one. I have not drawn a page of that book since May 1983. In July...

Marv: and just for clarification, today is September 30th.

Comics Buyer's Guide #517 headline “What happened to the JLA/Avengers team-up?”.

Excerpt:

Marvel's Editor-in-Chief, Jim Shooter told CBG, "In November 1983, I began calling DC to ask where the plot was. That's when I reckoned it was due. [Early in 1983] I receive the plot, which was completely unacceptable. I returned it Feb 25, along with a letter saying it was completely unuseable. The Marvel characters were out of character, and the story didn't make sense.

... "George Perez's schedule of commitments meant that he could no longer do the issue," Shooter told CBG. "The rush was to get the title to him in time for him to do it. Now the pressure is off.

"We were waiting to hear about a proposed new artist. Three didn't seem to be a huge rush for the plot approval under the circumstances."

However, it seems that progress is being made. 

The business people get involved. DC’s Paul Levitz (Vice President — Operations) and Marvel’s Mike Hobson (Vice President — Publishing) meet for lunch to hopefully find some solutions to the problems. Hobson agrees to write the first draft of a press release indicating that DC and Marvel’s creative differences had been resolved and that work on the project would resume. Levitz, if needed, would add his two cents to the document later. One of the points to be addressed in the release was a system that would ensure a quick approval — face to face, if possible. Hobson’s draft never materialized, despite Levitz’s frequent inquiries to get the project moving again.

Jim Shooter: “The president and business affairs brass at Marvel backed my position to the point that they were willing to let the project die, taking perhaps several hundred thousand dollars off of our bottom line. They would have not allowed such an event to occur over some personal vendetta of mine, I assure you.” — Wizard #35, July 1994 

Due to the disagreements between JLA/Avengers between Marvel and DC Comics, the two companies quietly agreed to cancel their second Titans/X-Men team-up, set for publication in Christmas 1983.

The plot would involve Brother Blood and the Hellfire Club teaming up to fight the New Teen Titans and X-Men. It would have the dream-team of Marv Wolfman and George Perez.

From the New Teen Titans #38 (Jan 1984) letter page:

“The second Titans/X-Men team-up will be published later this year if schedules are willing. George will be drawing it and I (Marv) will write. It should be a goodie. One advanced bit of info is the villains – Brother Blood and The Hellfire Club. Interested now?”